Curse

WTF · Sep 28, 2005, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Say on any blade that was the best it could be, which would be more expensive the -5 energy or the -10 armour?

Appreciate your help.

Akhilleus · Sep 28, 2005, 06:54 AM // 06:54

generally the 15% always -10 armor instance is the most valuable. 15 -5 and 15>50 are on average the same, some items being worth less and others more; since its build-dependant.
that having been said, if you are asking because you wish to aquire a weapon for USE, i would infinitly suggest -5 energy over -10 armor for several reasons.
namely, the damage bonus only applies to the enemy(ies) you are hitting, meanwhile the -10 armor applies to every single attack directed at you; and 10 ac can make a substancial difference; about 7% on average; making a higher difference the lower the base armor.
seccondly, many, if not most people somehow have the impression that "while attacking" means while you are physically hitting the enemy.
this is NOT the case. "while attacking" constitutes even having an enemy targeted (meaning thier name appears in the bar in the top middle of your screen); even if you are not swinging and are not casting spells, the game considers this "attacking" (spells that give bonuses vs enemies while they are attacking give bonuses under these circumstances, and you can not id/salvage items either).

jenna mysti · Sep 28, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

well in my opinion, it matters the weopon you are using, like for instance a bow would be most valuable with the -10 while attacking, cause in most cases(with a ranger) you are in the back of a group with the bow so usually the tank s are taking all the damage, or of course the monks.....but in other cases the -5 energy would be nice in an axe/sword/hammer, cause you are attacking up close, and surely you dont want -10 armor.....and the degens are just horrible in my opinion, i mean ...who wants -1 regen in energy or health?

-jessica

Barazur · Sep 28, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenna mysti

well in my opinion, it matters the weopon you are using, like for instance a bow would be most valuable with the -10 while attacking, cause in most cases(with a ranger) you are in the back of a group with the bow so usually the tank s are taking all the damage, or of course the monks.....but in other cases the -5 energy would be nice in an axe/sword/hammer, cause you are attacking up close, and surely you dont want -10 armor.....and the degens are just horrible in my opinion, i mean ...who wants -1 regen in energy or health?

-jessica

Exactly my thoughts.
Bows: -10 armor best tradeoff
Axes/Swords: -5 energy (-1 regen if u DONT use enchantments like mending)
In PVP if ur playing a knockdown W/E, you dont want less energy and so for hammers a -10 armor would be more useful.

Blue Steel · Sep 28, 2005, 02:18 PM // 14:18

-5 energy is the best penalty to have and thus the most valuable weapon by far; there are still a few ignorant people left in the game who pay well for -10 armor weapons, but they have slowly been sifted out by the penetrating force of mathematical and statistical logic. Think of it this way: +5 armor is arguably the best pommel for weapons, and with -10 armor whenever you are attacking (and when are you not attacking?) you are giving up twice that.

A few months ago people paid a lot for -10 armor weapons, but they were among the worst burned by the economy collapse. The market realities have a way of educating people eventually.

Here is the mathmatical hierarchy of weapon mods and the values assigned to them by a rational market:

15(no penalty) > 15(-5 energy) > 15>50 > 15 enchanted > 20<50 > 20 hexed > 15 stance > 15 vs. hexed > 15(-1 health) > 15(-10 armor) > 15(-1 energy regen)

Did I leave any out? Obviously, specific builds are attracted to or shy away from specific weapon configurations, but that is the general superiority. 15 always weapons, regardless of their penalty, are over valued by individuals, though.

Remember this, though: warriors have so little energy, anyway, that as soon as the battle gets going, they are constrained by their rate of regeneration, not their total supply.

capitalist · Sep 28, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

I used to be all about the -10AR, but now I lean more heavily towards -5 energy.

Jetdoc · Sep 28, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Here's a quick analysis I've done to show, for a sword or axe, that the -5 energy is better than the -10 armor....

Gladiator's Chest/Skirt and -5 energy weapon ---> 20 energy, 80AL, +20AL vs physical
Platemail Chest/Skirt and -10 armor weapon ----> 20 energy, 75AL, +10AL vs physical

This is obviously for a warrior trying to hold energy constant at 20, but it really demonstrates how the -5 energy dominates the -10 armor mod for warrior weapons.

Akhilleus · Sep 28, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenna mysti

well in my opinion, it matters the weopon you are using, like for instance a bow would be most valuable with the -10 while attacking, cause in most cases(with a ranger) you are in the back of a group with the bow so usually the tank s are taking all the damage, or of course the monks.....but in other cases the -5 energy would be nice in an axe/sword/hammer, cause you are attacking up close, and surely you dont want -10 armor.....and the degens are just horrible in my opinion, i mean ...who wants -1 regen in energy or health?

-jessica

i agree and disagree;
while i personaly find the -5 BY FAR the most useful penalty (since every class has a + energy armor, its EASILY countered), i think rangers have an even better option to choose from; 15>50/15 -5.
my ranger uses both; most of the time he uses 15>50, since most of the time people leave you alone. but when someone has the sense to actually come after my ranger, rather than let him rain down hell, i switch to a 15 -5 bow.
and while there is ONE method that can live with the -1 energy regen downside and still function fully, its the least versatile in tems of what you can do with your build.
i also think -1 hp regen is a HIGHLY underrated one, as this is very easily countered with a weapon switch and/or mending/live vicariously/vigorous spirit.

WTF · Sep 28, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Thanks Akhilleus, Blue Steel and all others who replied.
You have all answered my question and more.
Appreciate it.